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Vibrato Plugin?
Apr 15 2004
13:06
quetzalcoatl
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Vocaloid’s vibrato effect is one of the most impressive effects in Vocaloid, certainly when you first discover it, and how it transforms Vocaloid’s voice!

I was wondering if anyone knew of a VST/DX plugin that does the same thing but for a normal voice. I would also like to compare other vibrato plugins to the one in Vocaloid to process its voice too.

Apr 16 2004
13:59
quetzalcoatl
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Oh dear! have I revealed a gap in the VST plugins market? :D

Actually Vocaloid has. It’s vibrato really is stunning. Imagine if you could process a real singing voice with Vocaloid’s vibrato! Wow, just about anybody could sound like they had a beautiful singing voice.

I have a suspicion that there have been hardware versions of what I’m talking about for years. There must be something like this that Pop record producers have been using, to give people who haven’t got a voice, a realistic vibrato. What about the Bee Gees records? Is all that vibrato really down to Robin Gibb? Surely not. Most of the Bee Gees vibrato doesn’t even sound humanly possible, beautiful though it is.

So come one please .. how do they do it? Someone must know <img class=” />

Apr 17 2004
08:28
rickpaul
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In terms of vibrato, you could use AutoTune to do that, either by setting an automated vibrato or by manually drawing it in in graphic mode.

To do vibrato, a plug-in would have to be sensitive to pitch since vibrato is a movement of pitch over time. That could also obviously only work on monophonic sources.

Tremolo, which is a change in amplitude, but might be mistaken by some for vibrato, would be more easily doable, and there are probably more plug-ins that do that. I’m not sure about VST, but I do know DSP/FX has a fairly nice Tremolo plug-in in the DirectX world. The Sonitus Fx:Modulator plug-in included with Cakewalk’s SONAR 3 Producer Edition can do tremolo, as well. I’m sure there are others.

I think most talented singers do their own vibrato, though, and their form of vibrato tends to be part of their signature sound.

Rick

Apr 17 2004
23:12
quetzalcoatl
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Yes, yes, but I’m talking about faking it. Since we can fake just about anything else, it seemed odd to me that nobody had thought about making a plugin that would would give anybody a beautiful, if fake, voice. And vibrato is certainly the first recognisable feature of a beautiful voice. As soon as you hear vibrato your brain says, ‘ah yes, beautiful voice’ regardless of all the other factors of voice. You may not like the voice or style, but you have to admit, ‘she’s got a good voice’. If that effect can be faked electronically and convincingly, it would also open the doors to many, many people who have good song ideas but are put off by not having a good voice. And even then Pop and Rock is awash with people who cannot sing at all if we were being honest about it!

I’ll check out those suggestions. I’ve tried the Antares AutoTune and got nowhere. Good for the yoddling Cher effect though, LOL.

I am still convinced that Pop record producers have had somethng like this for years, and it’s a well-kept secret. Who’s going to let the cat out of the bag? :P

It would be cool if we could just open up a Wave file in Vocaloid and add vibrato!

Apr 18 2004
02:44
gray
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I got a voice like Willie Nelson and all the vibrato in the world aint gonna help it none. I use a vocalist to sing through with a lot of effect and very little real me. Sounds barely presentable that way.

Apr 18 2004
06:25
rickpaul
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[quote="QUETZALCOATL":157l92nv]I’ll check out those suggestions. I’ve tried the Antares AutoTune and got nowhere. Good for the yoddling Cher effect though, LOL.[/quote:157l92nv]

When used properly, as opposed to as an effect, AutoTune should be pretty invisible. Unfortunately, too many use it for that Cher effect (which wasn’t even done with AutoTune on “Believe”, but AutoTune does work for that, too).

With the vibrato, though, over on the right hand side of the automatic part of the interface (of AutoTune 3), there is an vibrato section. The default is no vibrato, but you can set sine wave, saw, or square tooth vibrato, and can tweak depth, rate, and delay (i.e. how long until the vibrato starts). I’ve never actually used that feature, so I have no clue how good (or bad) it sounds. I mostly use graphic mode, and just tweak the curves that form with the natural vibrato of the singer as needed to rein things in a bit as necessary.

Rick

Apr 19 2004
04:10
gray
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My ex-wife had one of them vibrato plug ins. heh heh

Apr 19 2004
07:20
andromeda
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Did it make her yodle? <img class=” />

Apr 19 2004
09:33
quetzalcoatl
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The AutoTune vibrato just doesn’t cut it. I’m talking about a plugin that does exactly what Vocaloid’s vibrato does; imagine importing a wave file of anyone’s voice, preferably someone who doesn’t have a vibrato voice .. it would transform it! :D Certainly, Vocaloid’s vibrato does this.

Apr 19 2004
12:46
andromeda
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I think the difference is that Vocaloid’s vibrato is midi (or message) based and happens [u:o5hbua6t]before[/u:o5hbua6t] the sound is produced and before the wave file. Processing a wave file is a completely different idea. The software would need to identify the start and end of the sung notes, as well as the original pitch. On this, then force a vibrato starting and ending at a certain point and at a certain depth. I’m sure the technology is there but it must necessarily be far more complex to achieve. How would you envisage “marking up” the performance in order to apply the effect. I guess it would involve minute manipulation of the wave file. It couldn’t be a simple drag and drop process unless you have reliable sound to midi processing, and some way of marking up the generated midi performance, which in turn can be used to modify the original wave. Just some thoughts…
Chris

Apr 19 2004
13:02
gray
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[quote="andromeda":o39tdfhz]Did it make her yodle? <img class=” />[/quote:o39tdfhz]
Yes. But her voice was worse than Leons in his screeching mode.

Apr 20 2004
00:25
quetzalcoatl
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[quote="andromeda":1xh78x61]I think the difference is that Vocaloid’s vibrato is midi (or message) based and happens [u:1xh78x61]before[/u:1xh78x61] the sound is produced and before the wave file. Processing a wave file is a completely different idea. The software would need to identify the start and end of the sung notes, as well as the original pitch. On this, then force a vibrato starting and ending at a certain point and at a certain depth. I’m sure the technology is there but it must necessarily be far more complex to achieve. How would you envisage “marking up” the performance in order to apply the effect. I guess it would involve minute manipulation of the wave file. It couldn’t be a simple drag and drop process unless you have reliable sound to midi processing, and some way of marking up the generated midi performance, which in turn can be used to modify the original wave. Just some thoughts…
Chris[/quote:1xh78x61]

I hope that developers are starting to think this one through. It looks complicated but do-able. Following on from your train of thought Chris, ading vibrato to a specific part of a dry sung waveform or a whole waveform might involve a morphing or a resynthsis perhaps (??). I’m not very clued-up on how these things are achieved technically. When we add reverb, delay or tremelo to a waveform, is the waveform re-procesed? What is actually being altered, is it the volume or pitch, and are they the same things anyway? When we add artificial reverb, what, technically is going on, is it a multiplication of the same waveform but starting at minutely different stages in time? Is tremelo acheived by quickly raising and lowering volume to give this rapid waving up/down effect? Is phasing achieved by duplicating the waveform and .. well during my DJ days years ago I used to get the phasing effect by having two copies of the same record playing at the same time, one of them would play a fraction slower than the other and presto, you’d get the phasing effect. So many questions. You have to be amazed really, that no one has developed a vibrato plugin for voice, when we can now simulate just about every other sound and effect imaginable. If anyone has any clues as to how it could be achieved without a plugin, please explain it. Or at least, explain the logic behind it.

Apr 29 2004
00:21
quetzalcoatl
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I found a vibrato plugin :D

It’s called OB Tune by Oberheim, and it’s superb.

Apr 29 2004
05:08
rickpaul
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[quote="QUETZALCOATL":3j8e68ht]I found a vibrato plugin :D

It’s called OB Tune by Oberheim, and it’s superb.[/quote:3j8e68ht]

FWIW, OB Tune is actually a somewhat stripped down version (automatic mode only) of Antares AutoTune.

Rick

Apr 30 2004
14:10
robotarchie
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Maybe I’m missing something coming late to this thread, but surely almost any of the hundreds of modulating plug ins around can be used to create a simple vibrato effect on a wav file, no? Hardware wise, don’t the cheap Digitech Vocalist machines also all feature this function as standard? I don’t think anyone really drone sustains a truly dead flat note for any length of time without vibrato unless they are willfully concentrating on that drone or are a Buddhist monk. Or recording a vocaloid font <img class=” /> . I remember years ago adding vibrato manually to the tails of a bass synth line after having recorded it “flat”. I had a (mono) guitar pedal by Boss called Vibrato (funnily enough <img class=” /> ) strapped across the output. That great wee pedal even had a variable delay knob which allowed you to apply the effect a short time after the pedal was depressed. I sat it on my lap and manipulated it manually to great effect.

Apr 30 2004
14:23
robotarchie
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On the earlier comments about controlling the effects of processing, it’s a simple matter of selecting a region by click-dragging in Wavelab or Sound Forge/whatever and applying the effect to that region only i.e. the tail ends of sung notes. And technically, the phase effect described by Quetzalcoatl is actually flanging. This “effect” was discovered I believe when two reel to reel machines with the same track on were put out of synch by applying the rubber tip of a pencil to the flange of one of the reels to slow it down. I think it was on a track called “Itchycoo Park”. The latest generation of artificial reverberators use a technology called Convolution, where a control sample of a real space is used to map other sounds onto. Sound Forge uses a version of this in a plug in called Acoustic Mirror for example. Hope this helps someone. :)

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