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New English Vocaloid
Jan 23 2010
07:57
maiki
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I just came across the following:

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/4278.html

A new Zero-G English Vocaloid singer, a male opera singer named Tonio.

My wish would be, that rather tuan spending their time and energy on new voices, that the manufacturers should be working on usability improvements, bug fixes, etc., ASAP

Jan 23 2010
10:15
Giuseppe
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Hi Maiki

It would be interesting to know in detail the errors you speak.

Each of the users have different ways to use the software and distints settings, SO, hadware, etc.

I use a lot the Vocaloid edit, and have not found significant errors in the software. Sometimes (very few) the editor is closed unexpectedly when I hit the play button, but if the project is saved it does not reoccur.

Can you specify please?

Regards.

Jan 23 2010
15:25
maiki
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[quote="Giuseppe":3m91tw42]Hi Maiki

It would be interesting to know in detail the errors you speak.

Each of the users have different ways to use the software and distints settings, SO, hadware, etc.

I use a lot the Vocaloid edit, and have not found significant errors in the software. Sometimes (very few) the editor is closed unexpectedly when I hit the play button, but if the project is saved it does not reoccur.

Can you specify please?

Regards.[/quote:3m91tw42]

Hi Giuseppe.

Thanks for the reply.

i know you are a great Vocaloid master. YOu have probably spent more time with the product than anyone else on earth, and have created fabulous material with it. I appreciate that.

Perhaps though, having spent so much time with it, you have conquered the problems, dealing with them becomes second nature, and you don’t realize the problems that ordinary mortals (non-masters) go through, in using the product. Most users though, do not have so much time to spend with it, as you have. They want something that will work "out-of-the-box".

Understandable, if Version 1 had some usability issues. After all, it was version 1. One expected though, a major usability improvement in Version 2, and I think that was part of the advertising as well.

Version 2 may have more expresive features,etc., for the use of a vocaloid master like yourself. But for the non-master, i find it not only ot easier to use than version 1, but in fact more difficult, more bugs, etc.

For instance, the problem I discussed in the following thread:

http://www.vocaloid-user.net/modules.ph … =2954#2954

Why hasn’t that been fixed yet? Why does a problem that was first mentioned with Prima months ago, still occur with the new Sonika? Why has there been no bugfix from Yamaha, to address this and other bugs? They come out with new voices, but do not want to bother to fix probblems with the Voc 2 editor? I think there is a real problem with Yamaha support. Why is there not even a 2.1 yet, fixing some problems?

I find Vocaloid 2 more difficult to use than Vocaloid 1, and certainly not any easier. How would other non-masters compare the two versions, concerning usability?

Jan 23 2010
21:13
Giuseppe
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Hi Maiki

Thanks for you kind word about my works.
I agree with you in many things.

I still being a (advanced) Vocaloid user and I’m going to speak now as user.

When I do a song, I look always for the midi file at internet, this way it’s possible to save a lot of time with the melody and with the music, If I find a file KAR file with the lyrics, it’s better, but some parameters like the lyrics are not correct.
I therefore think it is a problem of compatibility with MIDI parameters, between different software. Perhaps you mean that Yamaha should be more interest in these problems, or find more compatible with MIDI commands.

Many users (Youtuve videos) do your songs importing this files midi and I recognize it immediately, since the melody is very strong (voice) of volume, (this way was in the midi file) and they do not correct it.

When I use a midi file with Vocaloid, always see all the parameters (DIN, PIT) since some can be erroneous, the musical notes are mounted one above the other, that the melody was created with a different instrument to which we will use and also must be corrected.

But this itself happens with the background music, It is necessary to correct many mistakes since not all the software have a total compatibility with the Midi parameters. I imported the midi file at FL Studio to make the background music and I lose much time correcting these errors. This does not mean that FL Studio is a bad software.

If you do a song with Vocaloid2 from "zero", without using any midi file, you will not find any problems and also no error.

Indeed, I’m more accustomed to these errors and I prefer to make the melody with the lyrics step by step (from "zero"), this goes more time, but the result is better.

This one is just my opinion, Sorry for the English.

José

Jan 23 2010
23:38
maiki
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[quote="Giuseppe":2xidqf1v]Hi Maiki

Thanks for you kind word about my works.
I agree with you in many things.

I still being a (advanced) Vocaloid user and I’m going to speak now as user.

When I do a song, I look always for the midi file at internet, this way it’s possible to save a lot of time with the melody and with the music, If I find a file KAR file with the lyrics, it’s better, but some parameters like the lyrics are not correct.
I therefore think it is a problem of compatibility with MIDI parameters, between different software. Perhaps you mean that Yamaha should be more interest in these problems, or find more compatible with MIDI commands.

Many users (Youtuve videos) do your songs importing this files midi and I recognize it immediately, since the melody is very strong (voice) of volume, (this way was in the midi file) and they do not correct it.

When I use a midi file with Vocaloid, always see all the parameters (DIN, PIT) since some can be erroneous, the musical notes are mounted one above the other, that the melody was created with a different instrument to which we will use and also must be corrected.

But this itself happens with the background music, It is necessary to correct many mistakes since not all the software have a total compatibility with the Midi parameters. I imported the midi file at FL Studio to make the background music and I lose much time correcting these errors. This does not mean that FL Studio is a bad software.

If you do a song with Vocaloid2 from "zero", without using any midi file, you will not find any problems and also no error.

Indeed, I’m more accustomed to these errors and I prefer to make the melody with the lyrics step by step (from "zero"), this goes more time, but the result is better.

This one is just my opinion, Sorry for the English.

José[/quote:2xidqf1v]

Hi Jose–

Yes, I usually start with Vocaloid by importing a MIDI file. In my case, it is not one I found on the Internet, but one I created myself, in Sonar. Sonar (and its predecessor Cakewalk) has very good lyrics implementation.

To make a MIDI file in Sonar to be imported into Vocaloid, I make the file just one track, the vocal track i want to import. I try to see to it that the notes don’t overlap. (I don’t find that the "normalize notes" job in Vocaloid works very well.)

In the lyrics, i eliminate all punctuation, as I found that Vocaloid cannot handle punctuation in the lyrics–.,?!, etc.

Then I save as a MIDI file, instead of Sonar’s native format, .cwp.

Open in Vocaloid, do the phoneme convert thing, and press play.

With Vocaloid 1 Miriam, that worked pretty well. Certainly not perfect, always notes and syllables I had to fix up. And of course, to get to the kind of level of your work, it would need much more fixing up. Yet, right from the start, import the file and play, most of the words would actually sound more or less OK, imported from the MIDI file with lyrics.

Of course, I expected this to get better with Voc 2, as well as other improvements.

First of all, after importing and phoneme transformation, one presses play, and gets an error message. I am glad I found a solution to that on this board (delete extra track), but many users might not know of this board, and will never be able to play an imported MIDI file at all. This bug was not in version 1, but introduced in version 2. It was discussed on this board several months ago, including by Anders, who works for Vocaloid, who said he would bring it to Yamaha’s attention.

Well, why is that bug still not fixed, several months later. New Voc 2 voices came out, such as Sonika (which I bought!), now there will be this new man, but they still don’t fix a serious bug reported months ago. I think that shows something wrong with the company.

Now, back to usability. OK, now with Voc 2, I know the workaround for that bug, to delete the extra track. Now I can get the imported MIDI file to play. But it is terrible at first, much worse than the same file imported into Vocaloid 1. It needs MUCH more fixing, to sound at all decent. I don’t have the time, so I go back to Miriam.

Is there going to be a bugfix update of Voc 2 soon, that will fix problems like that? Or does Yamaha think it is enough to come out with new voices for a flawed product, and to appeal to the comic book types who worship the silly Vocaloid "characters"?

Anders, are you reading? What’s up (Not blaming you, but perhaps the folks running the project.)

Thanks José (Giuseppe), for your help.

Jan 24 2010
00:24
Giuseppe
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Personally, I don’t know which are the intentions that Yamaha has with Vocaloid to the future.(Yamaha has never spoken with me of any topic)

Undoubtedly they still are assuming the great success that has had this software in the world manga/anime with Hatsune Miku. (I have read recently that Yamaha now sells more pianos, thanks to the success of Vocaloid (Miku and family))

Personally I would like this incredible and good software was turning into a great software for professional musicians. In fact, the majority of my songs are not done for manga/anime, if not to do more realistic music.

Sonika’s voice is designed for the young people, is a great voice, but with Sonika I have done great songs. A example, "Whispering Waves", this is not a song to young people and they have not given much importance. Sonika is not guilty of software bugs.

Vocaloid will be improved, but I’m not sure of it.

Jan 24 2010
07:26
maiki
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[quote="Giuseppe":3hog9ebw]Sonika is not guilty of software bugs.

[/quote:3hog9ebw]

Well, i just mentioned a software bug, that i noticed when I tried Prima months ago, and was very surprised to see that problem still existing in Sonika, which i recently purchased.

Perhaps it is not Sonika herself who could be considered "guilty", but rather the whole Vocaloid 2 system. Some of these bugs should have definitely been fixed by now.

Jan 24 2010
11:19
Giuseppe
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Hi

Here I put a link where speaks Xavier Serra (Institut Pompeu Fabra – Barcelona) creators of Vocaloid

It is a conference that gave last December

(sorry is in spanish language)

The speech about the beginning of the investigation on the synthetic voice, Yamaha and Vocaloid, but the conference is specially based on the social importance that Vocaloid has had in the whole world, (Nico Nico Douga, anime etc)

I don’t know if they continue this Spanish university investigating in the improvement of this software.

Best

Jan 24 2010
16:00
maiki
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[quote="Giuseppe":3m0o2dki]Hi

Here I put a link where speaks Xavier Serra (Institut Pompeu Fabra – Barcelona) creators of Vocaloid

It is a conference that gave last December

(sorry is in spanish language)

The speech about the beginning of the investigation on the synthetic voice, Yamaha and Vocaloid, but the conference is specially based on the social importance that Vocaloid has had in the whole world, (Nico Nico Douga, anime etc)

I don’t know if they continue this Spanish university investigating in the improvement of this software.

Best[/quote:3m0o2dki]

Interesting. I thought Vocaloid was created by Yamaha in Japan. You mean it was created in Barcelona, and bought by Yamaha? I’m surprised then, that there is no Spanish language Vocaloid voice.

Social importance? Will Vocaloid feed the hungry, and heal the sick? <img class=” />

I have no idea what nico nico douga is, and have absolutely no interest in anime.

Thanks for the link. I will watch it. (Puedo comprender algo español.)

Back to what has been the main point of this thread (after mentioning the new voice)–

When will there be a bugfix update to Vocaloid 2? There ARE serious bugs in the program, more buggy in some ways than Voc 1, it has been out for a long time now, yet no bugfix updates.

Please support your product, Yamaha!

If not, can i get a refund on Sonika?

————

PS José– Are you in contact with the Barcelona Vocaloid guys? Being from the same country, and since you are the Vocaloid master, one would think you would get in touch with them.

Jan 24 2010
17:41
Giuseppe
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Vocaloid’s beginning was for a project called ELVIS, in Universitat Pompeu Fabra (Barcelona), This project was trying to replace the human voice with robots, singing in Karaokes up to turning into Vocaloid

Here the link the Elvis project:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MusicTechno … Lw0hx1sFqs

No, I not treat with the University, nor them with me.

Yamaha was putting the money to investigate on this matter. (I was thinking that this already the users knew it)

Vocaloid can neither treat the sick nor remove the hunger in the world, but increased the enthusiasm for learn music in young people. (now sell more pianos)
Nico nico douga es a site web japanese similar to youtube where they make videos and music competitions only Vocaloid very famous in Japan.

I don’t believe that Yamaha has left this project, after 4 / 5 years have updated their website http://www.vocaloid.com
I hope that we don’t have to wait four years more for an improvement of the product.

Jan 25 2010
14:58
anders
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For the sake of not having this spread over several threads, I’ve replied to Maiki’s questions here:

http://vocaloid-user.net/modules.php?na … opic&t=420

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