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Daisy Bell - Leon and Lola - Barbershop Quartet Style
May 30 2004
18:09
khc
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Hello Everyone, :D

I uploaded a version of this to the site before it moved. I have reworked and remixed it.

http://www3.sympatico.ca/khc.i….._Remix.mp3

Here is the MIDI file:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/khc.i….._Remix.mid

As I waited, rather impatiently, for my copies of Leon and Lola to arrive here in Canada, I really enjoyed listening to the music that all of you have posted.

Cheers,

KHC

P.S. @Andromeda, thanks for your comments! I was able to read them just before the site moved.

May 30 2004
21:40
gray
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I got a listen just before the site went down. Good job on the song. I was going to do sweet Adeline, had the melody file and words ready. You beat me to the punch with Daisy Bell. That should prove to be a popular download. I be looking for more of your work.

May 31 2004
00:52
khc
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Thank you for your kind words.

Don’t give up on Sweet Adeline, it’s a really nice song. Given the great results on Time of the Season, you could really make something magical with it.

I don’t know how successful I was with trying to make Lola and Leon sound like 4 different singers, but here is the list of techniques that I used. I learned most of them from tips posts here.

– All gender factors were kept constant for each voice. Soprano Lola had a lower gender factor than Alto Lola, and Tenor Leon had a lower gender factor than Bass Leon.

– Harmonics, Noise, Brightness, and Clarity were constant for each voice and tuned individually.

– Each voice used different vibratos.

– Each voice was EQed separately, to change the formants.

– Each voice was blended with two detuned copies, one up 7 cents, one down 7 cents.

– The MIDI note lengths were slighly different for each voice. This changes the pronounciation.

– The MIDI velocity of each note was slightly different.

– Each voice was blended differently into 4 reverbs.

– Each voice was blended differently into 4 delays used to model the space.

I want to keep experimenting with these variations, but the time it takes to render this is over 4 minutes (when all voices are changed). I am hoping that the speed improvements with the new vocaloid editor will make this faster.

May 31 2004
05:04
gray
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You may already know this, but break the melody into multiple tracks saves an immense amount of time in the rendering, enabling a better editing job. Time of the season was in 14 tracks on the main melody and 12 or so for the harmony parts. Vocaloid supports up to 16 seperate tracks. Also you can put the lyrics on top of the melody if you have a sequencer. Lyrics must be in lyric format. Text format won’t work. With lyurics on top of the melody, you only have to do the phoneme transfer and the lyrics are done. No spaces or .. etc. just lyric at each note. I have cut my vocalizing time ti 1/3 od what it used to be and with much better results.

May 31 2004
07:15
andromeda
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Yes it can be very time consuming to get it exactly right. I’ve stuck to just 3 Lola’s in my latest upload (when Joe gets back that is). The trick is to appreciate what it is that makes different voices different. A barbershop needs the voices to be individual. I think you have approached this the correct way. On the subject of barbershop – I used to sing the bottom bass in a quartet. I could offer my services to Zero-G to be the next male vocal font. I feel an “Ole’ Man River” coming on already…..

May 31 2004
13:25
gray
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I think they after more famous sounding voices. Now I on the other hand have the voice of a very famous singer. Uh huh… Willie Nelson… Lot of demand for that vocal sound in Texas… Expecially when you need to call the cows in…

May 31 2004
21:07
khc
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Thank you for the advice on breaking the melody into multiple tracks. This sounds like a great idea! I will keep working on this piece for about another week.

Old Man River could be fun to attempt with Leon. I have started work on [i:1tu8zl7h] The Black Velvet Band [/i:1tu8zl7h]. The arrangement is in the wrong key for Leon, when he sings the low D, it gets really weird, but it would be perfect for OMR!

May 31 2004
21:32
gray
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I know what you mean on the key thing. It isn’t to difficult to transpose keys, but you hate to do it. I’m getting to where I can get a reasonable sound in most keys now but some are more desirable than others.

Jun 1 2004
07:47
andromeda
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KHC
The remix is even better. It’s interesting too that the singers seem to have a “non-British” accent. I say that because the singers sampled were British, and to our friends across the pond, sound rather british when they sing. I noticed you have the same problem as I do with the sound of the consonant “d” (in Daisey etc.). I had problems with the word “destiny” in the “A for Andromeda” song. Have you tried increasing the length of the consonant? Do this by double-clicking on the note in piano-roll view and then clicking on setup, then setup again, and increasing the number in the little box for the consonant length of the “d”. It helps but is not perfect. Increase it to about 100.
By the way, I have re-arranged the “A for Andromeda” Song and will be uploading that as soon as Joe sorts out the upload problems. Listen for the “D” problem!!!!

Jun 1 2004
10:27
khc
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[quote="andromeda":49tf3dp4]KHC
The remix is even better.
[/quote:49tf3dp4]

Thank you!

[quote:49tf3dp4]
It’s interesting too that the singers seem to have a “non-British” accent. I say that because the singers sampled were British, and to our friends across the pond, sound rather british when they sing.
[/quote:49tf3dp4]

I’m not exactly sure how this happened, but I think it’s vibrato and note length.

[quote:49tf3dp4]
I noticed you have the same problem as I do with the sound of the consonant “d” (in Daisey etc.). I had problems with the word “destiny” in the “A for Andromeda” song. Have you tried increasing the length of the consonant? Do this by double-clicking on the note in piano-roll view and then clicking on setup, then setup again, and increasing the number in the little box for the consonant length of the “d”. It helps but is not perfect. Increase it to about 100.
By the way, I have re-arranged the “A for Andromeda” Song and will be uploading that as soon as Joe sorts out the upload problems. Listen for the “D” problem!!!![/quote:49tf3dp4]

I will try this consonant fix.

The sound that caused the most trouble is the “S” in [i:49tf3dp4]sweet[/i:49tf3dp4]. I used the consonant length there. This, note length, velocity, and vibrato seems to have worked.

I tried fixing the “sy” in the first Daisy sung by the tenor. I spent two hours on this last night. I stopped after the first system crash I have ever had with Vocaloid.

Cheers for now, I have to run to work.

Jun 2 2004
11:29
robotarchie
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I think I may have posted somthing on the “d” and “s” sounds somewhere around here before – it’s all a bit jumbled on this forum – but I found that adding an “h” after the “d” makes it go “duh” as opposed to “tih”. Also, by adding a “z” after “s” gives a longer and more realistic zing to the sound. Does this make any sense? My circuits are fully operational, Dave…… <img class=” />

Jun 2 2004
12:37
gray
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Good tips RA. Now and then, I add an r after the O@, Q@, U@ phonemes to get an r sound.

Jun 3 2004
13:17
khc
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Lots of new stuff to try! Thanks everyone!

Jun 3 2004
16:52
pow_backslash
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Mar 14 2004
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Here’s Daisy’s reply. (complements of Ma Backslash :D)

Lazy, Davy, here is my answer true.
I’d be crazy to marry a fool like you.
There won’t be any marriage,
If you can’t afford a carriage.
‘Cause I’ll be damned,
If I’ll be crammed,
On a bicycle built for two! <img class=” /> <img class=” />

Jun 3 2004
17:31
robotarchie
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:D You kill me, you nutter! <img class=” />

Jun 3 2004
19:21
gray
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LOL POW. Crazy Crazy!!!!!!! Another S fix that works sometimes is put an S at the end of the previous word as well as the beginning of desired word. Ex: Looks sweet, rather than look sweet. The z should work well on the word Daisy

Jun 3 2004
20:51
robotarchie
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Yeah, Gray – You got me wondering now if this sort of “trickery” approach to the pronounciation, etc actually produces better results than techniques like “going in” to the editor and extending consonants, etc i.e is it better to leave the basic fucker well alone and concentrate on squeezing the words out the VERY HARD WAY (oo-er, missus!). The truth I guess is probably a combination of both approaches wherever it seems appropriate i.e. mix’n’match’n’suck’it’n’see (I’ll see your oo-er missus and raise you one (dooble oo-er). Anyway, back on planet Earth (I’m only visiting), it does sometimes seem that every time you mess with the “innards” of the squawker it responds by producing yet another “original feature set” of artefacts that we have to contend with later on. Owt fer nowt as they say here in Blighty…. Garbage In Garbage Out as the eggheads say <img class=” />

Jun 4 2004
23:36
gray
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LOL Your a real comodian. And no, I didn’t misspell comodian.

Jun 5 2004
13:05
robotarchie
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A “comodian”? I got my dictionary out and couldn’t see that word in there. Best match I found was “1. A low cabinet or chest of drawers, often eleborately decorated and usually on legs or short feet” and “2. A chair containing a concealed chamber pot”. In light of the recent outbreak of FLAME WARS here on the vocaloid forum, I’m treating this as a slander and an outrageous attack on the good name of my person, etc. You leave me no choice – I know where you live – and with the merest whisper -with one phone call I can set my bitches on you. And you don’t want that as their hourly rates are VERY HIGH indeed ……. <img class=” /> <img class=” />

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