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Zaroff's "Context"
Mar 10 2004
22:27
quetzalcoatl
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Only one word for this… [color=violet:3mn1lozl][i:3mn1lozl]fabulous[/i:3mn1lozl][/color:3mn1lozl] <img class=” />

The Neil Tennant style “pop-rap” is very uplifting, is it Vocaloid?

The first Vocaloid we hear at the beginning sounds very VOTA, very interesting choral use, sounds like both Lola and Leon?

Mar 10 2004
23:31
zaroff
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A zillion thanks for the nice words ;) I highly appreciate them.

You’re spot on, the choral work on the first part is VOTA (a very, very nice library IMO) plus the base note of the chords dubbed by LOLA, and all other vocal parts are uniquely LOLA.
Well, almost: her voice, plus of course modification of her base parameters, plus a respectable effects section…

Track quality apart, I feel we’re very close to near-perfect computer vocals. V 2.0 or 3.0 of the Vocaloid engine/libraries will prove or disprove this, but this thing can already be frighteningly human-like at times. Can’t wait for what happens next :)

Zaroff

Mar 11 2004
02:45
gray
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Hey Zaroff. great work. how about uploading the midi file so us vocaloid illiterates can see how you got all those good sounds

Mar 11 2004
15:56
zaroff
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Gray,

Thanks for the nice words :)
About uploading the SMF, why not, but actually there’s one SMF per vocal part (otherwise the rendering time is maddening), so it wouldn’t be very practical, and as of now I really can’t find the time to put only one SMF together from all those parts. But I’ll try to keep it in mind to do it someday ;)

Zaroff

Mar 12 2004
03:10
gray
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[quote="Zaroff":p1yxlji0]Gray,

Thanks for the nice words :)
About uploading the SMF, why not, but actually there’s one SMF per vocal part (otherwise the rendering time is maddening), so it wouldn’t be very practical, and as of now I really can’t find the time to put only one SMF together from all those parts. But I’ll try to keep it in mind to do it someday ;)

Zaroff[/quote:p1yxlji0]
I know what you mean abt the time. I’ve started breaking my files into 7 or 8 tracks so the time is much less that way.

Mar 21 2004
18:10
zaroff
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Gray,

FWIW, and in all friendliness, I categorically disagree with the comments you left on that track. I like, and request if possible, constructive criticism, but “Vocaloid parts can’t be heard”? Either you flatter me indeed in thinking the vocal parts are sung by a human being, but somehow I don’t think it’s the case, or do I smell a little bad faith creeping in?…
(Not to mention it contradicts your previous comment in this thread…)

Zaroff

Mar 21 2004
19:34
quetzalcoatl
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Zaroff, Zaroff, Zaroff <img class=” />

Calm down brother, that wasn’t anywhere near being critical in my view.

FWIW, I think that having Vocaloid too deep in the mix, to the point that you can’t understand what’s being sung, is a general criticisim of a lot of Vocaloid tracks I’m hearing. I think gray’s right, the point of our demos here is not to make complete songs, but to show each other how we are tweaking Vocaloid to make it sing well. I left my first track “Singing” deliberately bare of production, preciesly because when I loaded it up with other noises, Vocaloid could barely be heard, so I had to just strip away most of the usual layering I would include in a track. When I posted the track on another forum, people couldn’t wait to tell me I “needed to get some ideas”, and “how about some production buddy?” even after I’d said this was an experiment in using Vocaloid for backing vocals, LOL <img class=” />. To all intents and purposes I think of this place as a workshop where we bounce ideas. There’s no reason why we should [i:1fj8op18]always [/i:1fj8op18]upload complete productions, no reason at all.

I would like to see a workshop project here where we all work on getting Vocaloid to sing just one word or one 3-word phrase really well. It’s got to be the best starting point.

Mar 21 2004
20:02
zaroff
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Heyyyyyyyy Quetz :)

I’m not dissing Gray’s comments as such, but plainly don’t understand what he means by that. And for the record, I’m not ***** off at him either, he’s entitled to his opinion anytime. But I really fail to see his point. By that I mean that if I put these vocals any more forward in this mix, I’ll end up doing an accapella job 8O And I don’t want that. In fact, I’m redoing the mix of this song because I think the vocals are a bit too upfront, but it’s just my choice, anyone’s free to agree/disagree with it. I presented this example as a “finished” track using Vocaloid to see what it could give in that context (no pun), not particularly as a Vocaloid demo “only”. Maybe that’s what Gray meant?

Gray, if you could chime in? <img class=” />

Anyway, maybe it could be useful to post the lyrics so that you can have a starting point about whether or not Vocaloid pronounces correctly?

Zaroff

Mar 21 2004
21:39
gray
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Z, if vocalid is doing the lead lyrics in that tune, I owe you a huge apology. But I don’t think it is. I couldny hear the back vocals very well. Perhaps you intended the song to be that way. But I rate here on vocaloid sounds, clearness and pronunciation. I also include comments on the song itself and as I said, you did a very good job on the song. But I rate on vocaloid points mentioned above. I meant no offense to you as a musician/songwriter.

Mar 21 2004
21:42
gray
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PS If you have vocaloid doing the lead vocal, I will try to re-rate if I can. And if you have vocaloid doing lead vocals, PLEASE post at least part of the midi file as the lead vocals were outstanding.

Mar 21 2004
21:57
zaroff
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Gray,

I can assure Vocaloid does EVERY vocal part in the track, main as well as backing. Guaranteed sans human being <img class=” />
I will try to post some midi parts here as soon as is convenient for me, but I wouldn’t cheat on something like this and tell you all fine folks that Vocaloid did this or that if it in fact didn’t. You have my assurances that all you hear IS Vocaloid, and nothing but.

Zaroff

P.S.: So you were indeed flattering me in disguise :twisted:
No hard feelings, mate.

Mar 22 2004
01:31
gray
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Dang Z. I thought only the backup waas vocaloid. I do owe you a huge apology. I gotta see your midi dude. The lead vocal on that was awesome. I feel like such a dummy. In fact, I am a dummy, heh heh. that vocal just sounded too real to me to be vocaloid. You apparently have discovered the secret of the settings or just got lucky on the pitch of the song. And I’m thinking you found the right settings. If I can change that rating, I’m gonna do so. Geez man, you need to say what parts is vocaloid, cuz I wouldnt have believed that was vocaloid just listening. Post them tracks. I’m willing to learn from someone better than me.

Mar 22 2004
01:33
gray
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PS I never thought you cheated. Vocaloid is so difficult to make sound good, I just thought you made backup vocal which isnt really cheating.

Mar 22 2004
01:49
gray
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Sorry Z but it wouldnt let me change my rating or even let me rate again. I apologize and I bow to the vocaloid master. HEY ADMIN!! I gave Z a 3 and later found the lead vocal was by vocaloid. Can you change that to a 103 for me??

Mar 22 2004
02:05
zaroff
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Gray,

lol a 103? <img class=” /> Hehe, that’s going to make Admin work hard.
Anyway, I will post (I think by tomorrow or the day after) the midi for the first verse and bridge, but you’re gonna be all disappointed. This track was a lot of work, but not entirely on the Vocaloid side; mixing had a huge, huge impact on how the vocals finally sound, i.e. using the same effects you’d apply on a “real” vocal track: delays, reverb, etc. So the Vocaloid midi is going to sound pretty flat on its own. Plus, indeed I obviously modified Lola’s base parameters, but I’m not sure those are exported in the midi files. Anyone knows? If they weren’t, I’d post the parameters I used here anyway…
I’ll keep you posted.

Zaroff

P.S.: Your apology, while it wasn’t necessary, is gladly accepted and you indeed pay me a huge compliment in being fooled by the rendering of the main vocal track. It was more than I expected as a reaction… <img class=” />

Mar 22 2004
02:24
gray
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All the reverb and effects in the world wont kill that chipmonk sound I been getting with vocaloid. Your midi will give me (and others) a starting place to work from. Seems we are all just guessin right now. And BTW, a GOOD admin would change that rating for me as it was certainly due to a misunderstanding. Listen to the back vocal only in Context and you will understand my rating. Again FANTASTIC job on the lead vocal. I’m impressed.

Mar 22 2004
10:10
administrator
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[quote="gray":893rvwkv] a GOOD admin would change that rating for me… [/quote:893rvwkv]
Your comment and rating for “Context” are now deleted…. so please comment a rate again.. :D

Mar 22 2004
11:29
quetzalcoatl
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[quote="Zaroff":2af78tv7]Gray,

I can assure Vocaloid does EVERY vocal part in the track, main as well as backing. Guaranteed sans human being <img class=” />[/quote:2af78tv7]

I thought you already said you used Voices Of The Apocalypse at the beginning.

Mar 22 2004
11:55
zaroff
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[quote="QUETZALCOATL":3u9fw0uc][quote="Zaroff":3u9fw0uc]Gray,

I can assure Vocaloid does EVERY vocal part in the track, main as well as backing. Guaranteed sans human being <img class=” />[/quote:3u9fw0uc]

I thought you already said you used Voices Of The Apocalypse at the beginning.[/quote:3u9fw0uc]

Indeed, but Vocaloid doubles the base chord notes <img class=” /> Anyway, so that there isn’t any confusion, VOTA does the most part of the choir at the start, and everything that’s sung with words is Vocaloid and nothing else.

Mar 22 2004
13:34
gray
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Do we gave a good Admin here or what!! Thanks a lot Joe. And Z, the Lead vocals is what is best in your song. I sometimes leave the midi aah for background myself.

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